<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: &#8216;What if&#8217; Doesn&#8217;t Pass Ethics Amendment Sniff Test</title>
	<atom:link href="http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test</link>
	<description>News you can&#039;t get anywhere else</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 08:25:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Oh-Willeke</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15768</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Oh-Willeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15768</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A Question Of Law, Not Of Fact&lt;/strong&gt; This case has nothing to do with proof and everything to do with an ambigious law.&#160; The point is that the worrying conclusions follow from the most obvious reading of the law.&#160; You have to contort the language of the Amendment to get a reasonable result, and a Nobel Prize winner shouldn&#039;t have to gamble on what a court is going to say about what that means after the fact.&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Amendment 41, on its face, is an absolute gift ban, not a ban on gifts in violations of the public trust.&#160; The whole point of a gift ban (as opposed to existing bribery laws) is that it presumes a quid pro quo, and the language of Amendment 41&#039;s gift ban does not require a quid pro quo for a violation.&#160; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is language about violation of public trust in Amendment 41, but only in the non-binding introductory language, and in language specifying a penalty of one type of gift ban violation.&#160; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;The legislature tried to pass legislation to give it a narrower reading, but the Colorado Supreme Court refused to say if that legislation was constitutional.&#160; The Attorney General&#039;s opinion was different from the legislature&#039;s read, and the trial judge&#039;s opinion gave yet a third read on what the Amendment 41 language means.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;For the opponents of Amendment 41, there are two way to win this case.&#160; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;If the gift ban is held unconstitutional, then a draconian gift ban is gone.&#160; The trial court ruling was premised on the more plain reading of the statute in which Amendment 41 is a gift ban and not a bribery ban.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;If the gift ban is given a binding judicial interpretation that it applies only to gifts which are a breach of public trust (something already prohibited by criminal law in Colorado), which is not an obvious reading of the text of the law, then the draconian gift ban will be neutered.&#160; Only the Colorado Supreme Court can do this.&#160; Neither implementing legislation from the Colorado General Assembly, nor an opinion of the ethics panel (which has been appointed now), nor an opinion of the Attorney General (neither of which can bind the courts to interpret the state constitution in a particular way) can. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Amendment 41 opponents only lose if their case is either dismissed on procedural grounds (leaving the state without a binding interpretation of poorly drafted constitutional language), or if the court finds that the draconian strict liability gift ban that the plain language of the statute suggests is correct and is also constitutional.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;When Justice Hobbs says &quot;It&#039;s not simply the gift. It&#039;s the breach of public trust.&quot;, he is jumping to a legal conclusion.&#160; If the Colorado Supreme Court reaches that opinion on the merits in the end, great.&#160; But, the doesn&#039;t undermine the need to get a binding ruling to establish that the law doesn&#039;t mean what it says it does.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A Question Of Law, Not Of Fact</strong> This case has nothing to do with proof and everything to do with an ambigious law.&nbsp; The point is that the worrying conclusions follow from the most obvious reading of the law.&nbsp; You have to contort the language of the Amendment to get a reasonable result, and a Nobel Prize winner shouldn&#39;t have to gamble on what a court is going to say about what that means after the fact.
<p>Amendment 41, on its face, is an absolute gift ban, not a ban on gifts in violations of the public trust.&nbsp; The whole point of a gift ban (as opposed to existing bribery laws) is that it presumes a quid pro quo, and the language of Amendment 41&#39;s gift ban does not require a quid pro quo for a violation.&nbsp; </p>
<p>There is language about violation of public trust in Amendment 41, but only in the non-binding introductory language, and in language specifying a penalty of one type of gift ban violation.&nbsp; </p>
<p>The legislature tried to pass legislation to give it a narrower reading, but the Colorado Supreme Court refused to say if that legislation was constitutional.&nbsp; The Attorney General&#39;s opinion was different from the legislature&#39;s read, and the trial judge&#39;s opinion gave yet a third read on what the Amendment 41 language means.</p>
<p>For the opponents of Amendment 41, there are two way to win this case.&nbsp; </p>
<p>If the gift ban is held unconstitutional, then a draconian gift ban is gone.&nbsp; The trial court ruling was premised on the more plain reading of the statute in which Amendment 41 is a gift ban and not a bribery ban.</p>
<p>If the gift ban is given a binding judicial interpretation that it applies only to gifts which are a breach of public trust (something already prohibited by criminal law in Colorado), which is not an obvious reading of the text of the law, then the draconian gift ban will be neutered.&nbsp; Only the Colorado Supreme Court can do this.&nbsp; Neither implementing legislation from the Colorado General Assembly, nor an opinion of the ethics panel (which has been appointed now), nor an opinion of the Attorney General (neither of which can bind the courts to interpret the state constitution in a particular way) can. </p>
<p>Amendment 41 opponents only lose if their case is either dismissed on procedural grounds (leaving the state without a binding interpretation of poorly drafted constitutional language), or if the court finds that the draconian strict liability gift ban that the plain language of the statute suggests is correct and is also constitutional.</p>
<p>When Justice Hobbs says &#8220;It&#39;s not simply the gift. It&#39;s the breach of public trust.&#8221;, he is jumping to a legal conclusion.&nbsp; If the Colorado Supreme Court reaches that opinion on the merits in the end, great.&nbsp; But, the doesn&#39;t undermine the need to get a binding ruling to establish that the law doesn&#39;t mean what it says it does.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Socrates</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15767</link>
		<dc:creator>Socrates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15767</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Hey, Zappaterro..&lt;/strong&gt; ....I heard you were going to run against Doug Bruce.&#160; Is that true?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Hey, Zappaterro..</strong> &#8230;.I heard you were going to run against Doug Bruce.&nbsp; Is that true?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zappatero</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15766</link>
		<dc:creator>Zappatero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15766</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;the last thing&lt;/strong&gt; Lobbyists and elected Republicans want in our government is common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>the last thing</strong> Lobbyists and elected Republicans want in our government is common sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dagwood</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15765</link>
		<dc:creator>Dagwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15765</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Buddy, can you spare $50?&lt;/strong&gt; &gt; For legislators who make only $30,000 a year and for&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&gt; lobbyists who want to talk to them, and take their time,&lt;/br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&gt; not to be able to buy them a sandwich or a cup of coffee&lt;/br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&gt; while they bend their ear, is ridiculous.&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s that $50 cup of coffee again! Are things really that expensive in Denver? If so, I&#039;ll deliver box lunches and drinks to the Capitol for $45/person.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve never had a $50 lunch and I don&#039;t want my representatives snacking on truffles and caviar payed for by lobbyists. Are the lobbyists afraid that an Applebee&#039;s dinner won&#039;t get their attention?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Buddy, can you spare $50?</strong> &gt; For legislators who make only $30,000 a year and for</p>
<p>&gt; lobbyists who want to talk to them, and take their time,</p>
<p>&gt; not to be able to buy them a sandwich or a cup of coffee</p>
<p>&gt; while they bend their ear, is ridiculous.
<p>There&#39;s that $50 cup of coffee again! Are things really that expensive in Denver? If so, I&#39;ll deliver box lunches and drinks to the Capitol for $45/person.</p>
<p>I&#39;ve never had a $50 lunch and I don&#39;t want my representatives snacking on truffles and caviar payed for by lobbyists. Are the lobbyists afraid that an Applebee&#39;s dinner won&#39;t get their attention?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: OnTheSidelines</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15764</link>
		<dc:creator>OnTheSidelines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15764</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Score One?&lt;/strong&gt; Thursday&#039;s hearing is looking better for Jared Polis than the Rockies first two games.&#160;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Score One?</strong> Thursday&#39;s hearing is looking better for Jared Polis than the Rockies first two games.&nbsp;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15763</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15763</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Rubbish&lt;/strong&gt; Jim Spencer does the same thing here that he did at the Post, where it went up in the daily news section as a (wait for it) news columnist. The only one confused about that is you.&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for Amendment 41, it hasn&#039;t affected anything, except to produce a fat load of melodramatic waaambulance bull-puckey (based on deliberately nonsensical readings of the law) because the steady supply of free stuff from lobbyists to public officials in exchange for &quot;nothing whatsoever&quot; has been threatened. I for one am amused by the idea of Peter Groff swearing at his computer with the rest of us last week instead of ringing up some lobbyist buddy for Rockies tickets, but thanks to Judge Habas there was no problem I&#039;m sure.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Gifts shouldn&#039;t make a legislator want to talk to somebody. Money isn&#039;t speech, so it&#039;s absurd to claim that Amendment 41 has &quot;stifled speech.&quot; That&#039;s been the right&#039;s claim for years, money=speech, conveniently since they had all the money and we had all the people. It&#039;s funny because you accuse Spencer of appropriating a right-wing tactic, but you&#039;re arguing their corrupt case --&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Rubbish</strong> Jim Spencer does the same thing here that he did at the Post, where it went up in the daily news section as a (wait for it) news columnist. The only one confused about that is you.
<p>As for Amendment 41, it hasn&#39;t affected anything, except to produce a fat load of melodramatic waaambulance bull-puckey (based on deliberately nonsensical readings of the law) because the steady supply of free stuff from lobbyists to public officials in exchange for &#8220;nothing whatsoever&#8221; has been threatened. I for one am amused by the idea of Peter Groff swearing at his computer with the rest of us last week instead of ringing up some lobbyist buddy for Rockies tickets, but thanks to Judge Habas there was no problem I&#39;m sure.</p>
<p>Gifts shouldn&#39;t make a legislator want to talk to somebody. Money isn&#39;t speech, so it&#39;s absurd to claim that Amendment 41 has &#8220;stifled speech.&#8221; That&#39;s been the right&#39;s claim for years, money=speech, conveniently since they had all the money and we had all the people. It&#39;s funny because you accuse Spencer of appropriating a right-wing tactic, but you&#39;re arguing their corrupt case &#8211;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: waltezwithdogs</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-15762</link>
		<dc:creator>waltezwithdogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-15762</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;is this supposed to be opinion or reporting?  Make up your mind&lt;/strong&gt; Amendment 41 has changed the culture at the capitol, and while some might think it is good, others do not.&#160; I don&#039;t mind a biased opinion-based editorial. In fact, I like them. But don&#039;t confuse it with reporting.&#160; Is this a story about what is going on in the court, or an opinion piece?&#160; It seems to cross the line between both and that is what the right wing tries to do that I find objectionable. Please Colorado Confidential - don&#039;t do that?&#160; If it is meant to be reporting, keep the editorializing out of it.&#160; To state my own biases, I do not support amendment 41.&#160; For legislators who make only $30,000 a year and for lobbyists who want to talk to them, and take their time, not to be able to buy them a sandwich or a cup of coffee while they bend their ear, is ridiculous.&#160; I would support a reasonable gift ban, but Amendment 41 goes way too far and I believe it has stifled speech and communication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>is this supposed to be opinion or reporting?  Make up your mind</strong> Amendment 41 has changed the culture at the capitol, and while some might think it is good, others do not.&nbsp; I don&#39;t mind a biased opinion-based editorial. In fact, I like them. But don&#39;t confuse it with reporting.&nbsp; Is this a story about what is going on in the court, or an opinion piece?&nbsp; It seems to cross the line between both and that is what the right wing tries to do that I find objectionable. Please Colorado Confidential &#8211; don&#39;t do that?&nbsp; If it is meant to be reporting, keep the editorializing out of it.&nbsp; To state my own biases, I do not support amendment 41.&nbsp; For legislators who make only $30,000 a year and for lobbyists who want to talk to them, and take their time, not to be able to buy them a sandwich or a cup of coffee while they bend their ear, is ridiculous.&nbsp; I would support a reasonable gift ban, but Amendment 41 goes way too far and I believe it has stifled speech and communication.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: waltezwithdogs</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-4965</link>
		<dc:creator>waltezwithdogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-4965</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;is this supposed to be opinion or reporting?  Make up your mind&lt;/strong&gt; Amendment 41 has changed the culture at the capitol, and while some might think it is good, others do not.&#160; I don&#039;t mind a biased opinion-based editorial. In fact, I like them. But don&#039;t confuse it with reporting.&#160; Is this a story about what is going on in the court, or an opinion piece?&#160; It seems to cross the line between both and that is what the right wing tries to do that I find objectionable. Please Colorado Confidential - don&#039;t do that?&#160; If it is meant to be reporting, keep the editorializing out of it.&#160; To state my own biases, I do not support amendment 41.&#160; For legislators who make only $30,000 a year and for lobbyists who want to talk to them, and take their time, not to be able to buy them a sandwich or a cup of coffee while they bend their ear, is ridiculous.&#160; I would support a reasonable gift ban, but Amendment 41 goes way too far and I believe it has stifled speech and communication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>is this supposed to be opinion or reporting?  Make up your mind</strong> Amendment 41 has changed the culture at the capitol, and while some might think it is good, others do not.&nbsp; I don&#8217;t mind a biased opinion-based editorial. In fact, I like them. But don&#8217;t confuse it with reporting.&nbsp; Is this a story about what is going on in the court, or an opinion piece?&nbsp; It seems to cross the line between both and that is what the right wing tries to do that I find objectionable. Please Colorado Confidential &#8211; don&#8217;t do that?&nbsp; If it is meant to be reporting, keep the editorializing out of it.&nbsp; To state my own biases, I do not support amendment 41.&nbsp; For legislators who make only $30,000 a year and for lobbyists who want to talk to them, and take their time, not to be able to buy them a sandwich or a cup of coffee while they bend their ear, is ridiculous.&nbsp; I would support a reasonable gift ban, but Amendment 41 goes way too far and I believe it has stifled speech and communication.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-4966</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-4966</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Rubbish&lt;/strong&gt; Jim Spencer does the same thing here that he did at the Post, where it went up in the daily news section as a (wait for it) news columnist. The only one confused about that is you.&lt;p&gt;
As for Amendment 41, it hasn&#039;t affected anything, except to produce a fat load of melodramatic waaambulance bull-puckey (based on deliberately nonsensical readings of the law) because the steady supply of free stuff from lobbyists to public officials in exchange for &quot;nothing whatsoever&quot; has been threatened. I for one am amused by the idea of Peter Groff swearing at his computer with the rest of us last week instead of ringing up some lobbyist buddy for Rockies tickets, but thanks to Judge Habas there was no problem I&#039;m sure.&lt;p&gt;
Gifts shouldn&#039;t make a legislator want to talk to somebody. Money isn&#039;t speech, so it&#039;s absurd to claim that Amendment 41 has &quot;stifled speech.&quot; That&#039;s been the right&#039;s claim for years, money=speech, conveniently since they had all the money and we had all the people. It&#039;s funny because you accuse Spencer of appropriating a right-wing tactic, but you&#039;re arguing their corrupt case --</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Rubbish</strong> Jim Spencer does the same thing here that he did at the Post, where it went up in the daily news section as a (wait for it) news columnist. The only one confused about that is you.
<p>
As for Amendment 41, it hasn&#8217;t affected anything, except to produce a fat load of melodramatic waaambulance bull-puckey (based on deliberately nonsensical readings of the law) because the steady supply of free stuff from lobbyists to public officials in exchange for &#8220;nothing whatsoever&#8221; has been threatened. I for one am amused by the idea of Peter Groff swearing at his computer with the rest of us last week instead of ringing up some lobbyist buddy for Rockies tickets, but thanks to Judge Habas there was no problem I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>
Gifts shouldn&#8217;t make a legislator want to talk to somebody. Money isn&#8217;t speech, so it&#8217;s absurd to claim that Amendment 41 has &#8220;stifled speech.&#8221; That&#8217;s been the right&#8217;s claim for years, money=speech, conveniently since they had all the money and we had all the people. It&#8217;s funny because you accuse Spencer of appropriating a right-wing tactic, but you&#8217;re arguing their corrupt case &#8211;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: OnTheSidelines</title>
		<link>http://coloradoindependent.com/2897/what-if-doesnt-pass-ethics-amendment-sniff-test/comment-page-1#comment-4967</link>
		<dc:creator>OnTheSidelines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coloradoindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2897#comment-4967</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Score One?&lt;/strong&gt; Thursday&#039;s hearing is looking better for Jared Polis than the Rockies first two games.&#160;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Score One?</strong> Thursday&#8217;s hearing is looking better for Jared Polis than the Rockies first two games.&nbsp;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

