Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.
Critics are holding up the layoffs, which come just two months after the organization’s last round of dismissals, as a sad commentary on the true priorities of the ministry.
“If I were their membership I would be appalled,” said Mark Lewis, a longtime Colorado Springs activist who helped organize a Proposition 8 protest in Colorado Springs on Saturday. “That [Focus on the Family] would spend any money on anything that’s obviously going to get blocked in the courts is just sad. [Prop. 8] is guaranteed to lose, in the long run it doesn’t have a chance — it’s just a waste of money.”
In all, Focus pumped $539,000 in cash and another $83,000 worth of non-monetary support into the measure to overturn a California Supreme Court ruling that allowed gays and lesbians to marry in that state. The group was the seventh-largest donor to the effort in the country. The cash contributions are equal to the salaries of 19 Coloradans earning the 2008 per capita income of $29,133.
In addition Elsa Prince, the auto parts heiress and longtime funder of conservative social causes who sits on the Focus on the Family board, contributed another $450,000 to Prop. 8.
“They should do more with their half-million dollars than spending it to collect signatures to take the rights away from a class of people,” said Fred Karger, the founder of the anti-Prop 8 group Californians Against Hate. “I think it’s wrong and it’s hurtful to so many Americans.”
In addition to promoting socially conservative issues such opposition to abortion and gay rights, and supporting abstinence-only education, the evangelical Christian ministry is a purveyor of Christian books, CDs and DVDs. Two months ago, citing Wal-Mart and online retailers as having cut into its product market, Focus announced that 46 employees would be laid off from its distribution department. Late Friday, Focus spokesman Gary Schneeberger confirmed that more layoffs are in store, but said the ministry will not release details until Monday afternoon. Schneeberger hinted that some programs may be eliminated entirely, but declined to elaborate.
“We’re going to need to talk to our own family first,” he said. “We need to respect the people who are affected.”
Schneeberger also refused to discuss the funding priorities that Focus made this fall, including pumping money and in-kind contributions into Proposition 8.
This is the third year that Focus has laid off employees due to budget cuts. In its heyday, the ministry, which relocated to Colorado Springs from Arcadia, Calif., in 1991, employed more than 1,500 people. Many of those employees worked in mailroom and line assembly jobs, processing so much incoming and outgoing correspondences that the U.S. Postal Service gave Focus its own ZIP code.
In September 2005, nearly 80 employees were reassigned or laid off in an effort to trim millions of dollars from its 2006 budget. In addition, 83 open positions were not filled in the layoff, which included eliminating some of the ministry’s programs. At the time, Focus employed 1,342 full-time employees.
“To the extent that we can place them within the ministry, we will try to do that,” said then-spokesman Paul Hetrick. “Most of them will not be able to be placed.”
In September 2007, amid a reported $8 million in budget shortfalls, Focus on the Family laid off another 30 employees; 15 more were reassigned within the company. Most of the layoffs were from Focus’ constituent response services department (i.e. the mailroom).
At the time, Schneeberger, who had replaced Hetrick, said that giving was actually up by $1 million during the fiscal year. However, a very “aggressive” budget goal of $150 million did not materialize.
In a statement issued this September, marking the end of the ministry’s fiscal year, Chief Operating Officer Glenn Williams weighed in on the additional layoffs of 46 people.
“It is certainly heartbreaking that in this case fulfilling that duty means having to say goodbye to some members of our Focus family, but industry realities really leave us no alternative,” he note in his statement. “We are accountable to our donors to spend their money in the most cost-effective and productive manner possible.”
But Lewis, the Colorado Springs activist, wonders whether the families who donate to the nonprofit ministry, realize where their funds really end up.
“Seriously, I would imagine their supporters have got to be asking the question about whether their church is really practicing their theology.”
For Lewis, who is straight, the issue boils down to the significance of targeting a class of citizens for exclusion, at the expense of the families that the ministry could be helping — in this case their own employees.
Lewis likened Proposition 8 to Colorado’s Amendment 2, the 1992 anti-gay measure that was designed to prohibit gays and lesbians from seeking legal protections. Colorado voters approved the measure, which was marketed by proponents, including Focus on the Family, as an effort to prohibit gays and lesbians from seeking “special rights.” The U.S. Supreme Court stuck down the measure as unconstitutional four years later.
“You can’t make homosexuals second class citizens — we’ve learned that already,” Lewis said. “People will look back on this and see how absurd it is.”
Days before this year’s election, Focus founder James Dobson appeared at a closing rally at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego to rally the anti-gay troops.
Karger of Californians Against Hate, termed the rally a “big bust.” Organizers promised that more than 70,000 supporters would show up; the final tally was close to 10,000, he said.
Yet three days later, California voters approved the measure with 52 percent of the vote. While the measure will certainly head back to court, California has become the 31st state in the country to pass measures that define marriage as being between a man and woman only. In all, Proposition 8 has proven to be the most expensive social issue in the country, with more than $73 million pumped into the cause from both sides. One of the larger contributors to the anti-Prop. 8 efforts was Colorado gay philanthropist Tim Gill, who contributed $720,000 to oppose the measure.
“I’m very disturbed by organizations from out of state like Focus on the Family,” Karger said. “They came in early to make sure the measure got on ballot; they’ve got muscle and they are out to hurt a lot of people and destroy a lot of lives.”








View Comments
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:36 am
One issue which has been studiously avoided by the execs at the Center for “Retrogressive” Journalism: they severely “worked” the writers on the Minn and CO papers in the months leading up to the election, and then dumped them. Now they may be trying to cover up by making statements about this move being in the works months ago. Yet they are giving close to nothing in severance packages, and have not offered any overtime for the vast number of additional hours the reporters had to work to get out the election stories. So as The Who might say about these titans of the industry: “Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss.”
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
I want to know when these groups who preach political policy (and donate money to boot) from the pulpit lose their tax exempt status.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Maybe the suckers, er , congregants, are getting tired of giving their tithes for hate-mongering instead of addressing real problems such as the economy, the war, health insurance, the high cost of fuel, people losing their homes and jobs, poor schools, the pollution of the planet, etc.
I always think if companies would just lay off the CEO, they might be able to save most of the “little” people's jobs. Maybe it's time for someone to step down.
Rev. Focus seems to only focus on hatred and he doesn't seem to give a rat's a** for the BORN on our planet. I hope God asks him why someday.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
James Dobson = Grade A Douchebag.
Fire him first! And then shut down this disgraceful organization!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
Sad for the employees who will ultimately lose their jobs but in a way, it's karma for their signing up to work at a fanantical (tax exempt but not for long) establishment.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
They “saved” traditional marriage, but couldn't save 46 jobs. And of those 46 that will be laid-off, the married one's will eventually end in divorce due to financial hardship. They really didn't save traditional marriage. They disenfranchised a group of people by taking away their civil rights. Shame on the church, and all bogus religions for that matter, that continue to divide and build hate within their own congregations. Prop 8 WILL be defeated because this issue IS about civil rights. We're here, we're queer…LIVE WITH IT!!!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
Can citizens challenge tax exempt status?
I'd like to see all these organization — Focus on the Family, the mormon church — go bankrupt. At the very least, they should pay taxes on their income.
Focus of the Family has shown that it is nothing but political institution with the agenda to socially engineer our society through government.
Tax them!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
The church, according to Christ, is to be a storehouse for the people who attend it. That way, in times of drought (financial crash) it's flock can turn to the church which has been saving for such a time.
Focus on the Family, instead uses the money to make christianity the law, rather than a choice. They back various candidates, who do not live a christian lifestyle simply because these candidates promise to pass laws, legislation and amendments to force non christians to accept the Bible's laws.
I have been unable to find one instance of Christ making a law. His message was in fact the opposite. Christ was crucified by false religious leaders who used “laws” of man, to convict him of crimes. Christ died as a sacrifice and to free us from the law, by his dying for our sins.
Dobson's ministry as well as many right wing religious leaders have become like the men who crucified Christ. They completely ignore the message of Christ's life. These ministries will be cursed for using the christian religion to do evil things to non christians.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
All the money Focus on the Family, The Morman Church, and the (aboved mentioned) Elsa Prince, poured into Prop 8 amazes & disgusts me. Millions of dollars! Good Christians everywhere should take note of this waste of money. Think of the good they could have done with all that money healing the sick, feeding & clothing the poor, helping folks hold onto their homes, etc, you know, REAL Christian values, the ones Jesus actually talked about! What a bunch of evil, mean spirited, low life scumbags these people are. I am not a Christian, but if I was, these are the last people I would want to be associated with. Shame on them!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
When is the IRS going to take away their tax-exempt status?
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
At least if those ex-employees become homeless they won't have to worry about being attacked by “the gay”…….
Next topic….how many people will lose their jobs when FOF turns their efforts towards their asinine “war on christmas”?
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
I am suspicious of anyone who is that vehemently opposed to an issue such as gay marriage. My first thought is that person is probably a self-loathing, closeted homosexual. Couldn't the thousands, if not millions, of dollars been spent more wisely? Instead, they chose to tear down the civil rights of an entire group of people and impose their will on all of us. Disgusting.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
Focus on the Family is, like many religious organizations in the US, a business. They should be taxed like one! All the hubris, irrational nonsense, and hatred they spew is their “product.” It is what Dobson shells out in order to rake it in. P.T. Barnum would be proud of this self-righteous jerk-off.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
Good. Dobson and his organization sold their souls for political power a long time ago. This is hardly a “Christian” organization. I have to say – as a Christian – this organization has been embarrassing me for years because they represent hate, intolerance, and greed. I often wonder if Dobson has ever actually cracked open the Bible he so enjoys using as a weapon.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:22 pm
Why doesn't Dobson ask ol' Joel Osteen for the Money…they're cut from the same clothe…Brainwashers of the Gullible,Inc. LLC….what a Happy day for America…when Dobson is finally called like Falwell to his maker “Satan”!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
…Ha, more like focus on the RNC/GOP lie machine and their empty promises…..
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:27 pm
Who would Jesus H8 ????? May the Lord bless and guide the hearts and minds of the California Supreme Court and give them the determination and strength to uphold the fundamental right to equal protection guaranteed in the California and federal Constitutions. If you take the time to review the May ruling in re: Marriages, and then read the text of the lawsuits filed, I think you will all see that Proposition 8 is headed for repeal, as is the only right outcome. It is time for the H8 and lies to end. The fear of gays is fired by the flames orf astoundiong ignorance. Our California Constitution should not be tampered with by out-of-state carpetbaggers and their millions of $$$. How good Christuians could ever join in such an unholy alliance of H8 with the Roman Catholic pedofiles and the Mormon polygamists is at the same time disgusting as it is bewildering. Remove the log from your own eyes before you take aim with that stone……
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
“…industry realities really leave us no alternative.”
Exactly. Focus on the Family is part of an INDUSTRY. It merely uses religion as cover. It–and all the other industrial-strength mega-church marketing frauds–should lose their tax exempt status and be treated as commercial, money-making enterprises.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Yes, citizens can challenge tax exempt status. File a complaint with the IRS about Focus on the Family, the LDS Church, the Catholic Church, or any other tax exempt organization whom you suspect of possibly not obeying tax law.
http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-compl...
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
It's a two-fer…Screw the gays and then screw your own people. Gimme that old time religion!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Arrogance, ego and dogma always lead to downfall and Mr Dobson is only collecting what he sows.
Now hopefully the sheeple will awaken.
Joseph
http://www.explorelifeblog.com
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
When enough people complain about to motivate the IRS to get over themselves and do something about it. File a complaint following the directions at the site below, on Focus on the Family, the LDS Church, the Catholic Church, or any other tax exempt organization who supported Yes on 8.
http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-compl...
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
What he said! Exactly! Help make it happen. File a complaint with the IRS about Focus on the Family. Print out blank forms from the site below, and this article, as well as any other print references you might now about the Focus on the Family business, and mail them to the IRS. You can also file complaints about the LDS Church, the Catholic Church, or any other tax exempt organization.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
Why would a Christian organization be so focused on hate? Why not just focus on helping people (I guess it be straight people only), but at least their actions would be in line with heling them. They should be focusing on the poor, elderly and those that are disadvantaged in life.
If they want to choose not to help gay people, that is their choice. However, to focus on being purposefully hateful and ensuring that others do not get something is completely out of line with Christian teaching.
The sooner they learn that they should focus on what Christ taught and serving those that are in need, the less they will have to spend on these other programs. In addition, they should be avoiding the politics here lest they get their non-profit status pulled away.
Please help them stop the hypocrisy.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
oops, forgot the link. Here it is…
http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-compl...
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
Here's another site doing the same thing, with links to the appropriate IRS forms and info.
http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
I think that the Priest who sent letters to everyone who voted for Obama telling them they could not take communion if they voted for him should be more than enough to make the case for taking away the tax exempt status of his Church, and that of his diocese.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
These powerhouse Christian leaders and their followers have lost completetly,or perhaps never had it to begin with, the message of Jesus which was to transcend the lust of the flesh which includes the overwhelming and blinding desire to gain wealth and have power over other people while forsaking the well being of fellow humans. The lust for power has gone so far as to champion the trumpeters of war and killing of innocent “non-believers”. What are a bunch of Christians doing lusting after hatred anyway? Would any true believers of God's love go any where near these hate mongers? Only in a moment of ignorance and brainwashed stupidity. Does the term brownshirts mean any thing to any one? It's freightening how easy it is to convince someone to hate another human being.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 3:15 pm
“AMEN” to that. I want to see every church and non-profit lose tax exempt status over this. THERE IS a reason for separation of church and state.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
And that has what to with the Christiofascists laying off their hate workers hiw,exactly?
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
actually, not too much Freddie! But you need to read between the lines.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
alot of money will then be taken away from worthwhile causes that alot of churches support or run. would you like food shelters to be closed down because they no longer have enough resources, or things like bereavement counselling, or community playgroups in poverty-stricken areas. I think this needs to be thought out. yes, seperation of church and state, however they do have freedom of speech too, so seperation is not that easy, or justifiable. but yeah the church shouldnt be running massive blanket political campaigns or there be a theocracy.
but the tax thing is complicated. i definitly wouldnt support it being retracted everywhere.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 6:08 pm
Please buy a dictionary and learn to use it!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
I am waiting for that to happen as well!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
Christ had two commandents to obey: “you should love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind” and “you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” That's it! The fact that these “so-called Christians” show that they cannot follow the simplest of the commandments – loving thy neighbor – should prove what hypocrites they are (and do not deserve to be called Christians in the first place). Jesus spoke of divorce and adultery several times but He never spoke of homosexuality which is proof positive that the Bible Thumpers don't know what they are talking about
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
FOCUS has a political action committee I think – that requires non-tax exempt status to begin with and donations aren't tax deductible in that case.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 7:46 pm
Homosexuals placed their money on the table just like Christians did and lost. So, deal with it. Are you bitter cause everyone does not believe the same things as you do? This is a democracy. YOu always hollering about christian hating. Well, what are you doing? you hate the fact that Prop 8 passed. Now, you scream hate. When it comes back up again. I am going to vote for it. And you should not vote for it. You dont tell others how to vote. God says homosexuality is unholy. Homosexuals dont care about the will of God. They love their sex sins more than they love Jesus. If you love JEsus so much then you would obey Him and stop defiling your bodies. Same thing with adulterers. God says you are to love him more than sex. If you cannot do that then you are none of his.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
Amen Randall. Well said, and scarier than shit…..
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Why should only churches run these services? If the American public weren't so tax-phobic, we'd be willing to support government-funded services for everyone — entirely devoid of any religious overtones.
And, frankly, if churches are worried about losing their tax-exempt status in order to continue to provide such services, then they should stay out of politics. Period.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
“God says homosexuality is unholy.”
When did he say that? I didn't hear him say that. Come to think of it, I've never heard this imaginary goblin say anything. But maybe I'm not special enough to hear his magic words. Maybe I'm a demon from the underworld.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
Actually, the separation of church and state in the United States is now, and always has been, a complete and total myth. It's tantamount to an urban legend.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 8:25 pm
This kind of work has fallen to churches because churches seem to be the primary (please not that I did NOT say “only) place to find people who are actually willing to do the work.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 8:43 pm
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 9:07 pm
“Jesus spoke of divorce and adultery several times but He never spoke of homosexuality which is proof positive that the Bible Thumpers don't know what they are talking about”
Radicals, be they Christian or Muslim never learn…..stupidity seems to be their ideology. Very Very Dangerous!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
And in all of the Gospels – Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, just exactly what did Jesus say about homosexuality? You'd think if it were important, he would have addressed it. There is no version of the New Testament I'm aware of (and I spent 2 years in seminary) in which Jesus said a single word about homosexuals, one way or the other.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
As usual, you read the part of the verse or verses that suit what you believe. If you read further, it also speaks of redemption. The verbiage depends on what version of the Bible you are using. Be that as it may, I don't think the power hungry, wealth driven version of clergy would fair any better under the verses. Guess you 'knowledgeable and true believers' will show the rest of us on judgement day.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
Do you not know that the word “homosexual” didn't exist until approximately 1890? Do you not know that the term “homosexual offenders” is erroneously translated from the Greek word “arsenokoites”, and that it actually doesn't mean “homosexual”, but instead refers to pederasts (pedophiles)?
Do you not know that Paul is responsible for writing 1 Corinthians? Do you not know that Jesus didn't ever say a single word about homosexuality in the four Gospel books?
To quote Jesus, “Are you so dull?”.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 9:58 pm
nor eaters of shrimp or ostrich or goat, or some locusts but not others…. leviticus 11 defines them as abominations too – be consistent people, lazy text-quoting doesn't cut it anymore among people who are smarter than a fifth grader.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
Ummm….not exactly…there are expressly stated rights and implied rights in the Constitution. You should take a law class or two or three.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:22 pm
Yes, but the apostle Paul did speak out against it in the book of Romans…and never did any speak in favor of homosexuality nor same gender marriage. Nevertheless, voters were not voting for their preferred biblical interpretation. They were voting only for defining what the word marriage means within the California Civil Code. All other legal rights have been systematically given through laws governing civil unions.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:30 pm
Sorry, those are not the words of your christ. They are the words of Paul written to the church in Corinth. See 1Corinthians 1:1. IMO Paul is the first of the hate mongers that subverted the message of their so called saviour. Paul spends much of his writings telling people how they must live their lives so that they meet his definitions.
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:39 pm
I would if I may call them Christian Taliban
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:40 pm
It is time Religious organisations…..stop politicking…or lose their tax exempt status..
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:44 pm
I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but separation of church and state is one of the primary founding principles of this country – why do you think the words “Christian” and “prayer” are nonexistant in our founding documents, even though many of our founding fathers were, in fact, Christians? Because our founding fathers had a radical idea that people would live together more peaceably if the government stayed out of religious business AND religion stayed out of government business. Read the papers of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and you will discover that they continuously referred to the importance of the wall of separation and sent letters to state officials when they brought inappropriate religious influence in to civil or court proceedings. It is our country's history and it is all available for you to read! Give it a try – you'll be amazed at how brilliant our founding fathers were to come up with such a crazy experiment called America!
Comment posted November 17, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
Actually Menlo it is not true that all legal rights are given through civil unions – health insurance organizations are not required to recognize civil unions, which means they can deny coverage even if the employer has overall GBLT friendly policies. Also, hospitals are not required to recognize civil unions in all states, so if couples with civil unions (not marriage certificates) travel out of state and one ends up in the hospital, they can be denied visitation. In some states, families can challenge civil unions rights to property ownership if one partner dies. There are many other rights, but these are some of the larger ones that are taken for granted.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 1:33 am
Ayatollah Dobson, leader of the American Taliban! Achtung! Siegheil! Immolate yourself in Valhallah!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 2:14 am
Taliban is associated with physical violence in accomplishing their aims. Campaigning for the sanctity of marriage by informing and motivating people to participate in the democratic process by voting against the ungodly desires of those who would rather expose the world to the Fire and Brimstone wrath of a Longsuffering, Holy, Righteous and Just God is not 'Talibanism'.
The Holy Bible clearly records that Homosexuals are highly intolerant of those who object to their choice to yield to their ungodly desires (Genesis 19:9; Judges 19:22-28). Their vicious campaign is therefore not a surprise.
Unbelief did not deliver the people of Sodom and Gomorrah from being consumed by the Fire and Brimstone that fell from Heaven, neither will it deliver this world from being consumed by Fire and Brimstone if we allow Homosexuals to hijack this world, as they hijacked Sodom and Gomorrah.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 3:49 am
Are you actually for real?
I mean, do you actually believe this rubbish.
Scary if you do.
Real scary
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 4:04 am
Obviously Mr. Kpohraror is an ostrich. I find the “Christian Right” to be a violent form of the Taliban. Neither Christian nor Right wing they are pseudo-Nazis who have perverted Christ's teachings into their own self-righteous power grab. Dobson is just a Himmler wannbe. All I know is that I pray Jesus Christ does not come back while these creatures walk the earth otherwise, like the Sanhedrin, they will nail him to a cross because he does not preach their hate.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 4:24 am
Now that these Christians have lost their jobs and health insurance, they should forgo any potential health care brought by the upcoming godless administration.
Dobson can pray for them while they sit in the emergency room with their children begging for basic health sevices
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 4:42 am
The Christian Talibans is normally used as a figure of speech…they use their religious influencesand money to terrorise the minorities….coming back to your talk of Sodom and Gomorah…then what happened to Lot's Wife..according to your Holy Bible your unforgiving god rained down fire and brimstone and killed all those Sinners…and then Lot's wife turned into a pillar of Salt and then ….hear this: Lot's TWO DAUGHTERS COMMITTED INCEST WITH THEIR FATHER……what type of Religion is that that now tells us INCEST is SINFUL and yet allowed Lot's TWO DAUGHTERS TO COMMIT INCEST WITH HIM?…ISN'T YOUR REASOMOMG flawed? Quoting a book of doubtful origin to bolster your argument is telling all and sundry you are bankrupt of logic….I am sorry for you.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:21 am
why are Democrats the 'Godless Administrations'? Do you think that all of the lies and BS from Bush Jr. is from God? Are you that blind to reality? If that is true then Christ died for nothing and you are living proof of what he preached against.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:28 am
hate workers?
my college roommate was one of the people laid off. way to make vague and misspelled generalizations.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:35 am
Sheesh man, take it to the pulpit – maybe you can create a whole new cult of superstitious haters.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:42 am
Your peculiar religious beliefs and your cherry-picking of Bible stories you like while ignoring the rest is all certainly very interesting.
However, we are discussing the laws of the United States of America, established by the Founding Fathers (skeptics and deists all) as a secular society with a strict adherence to the rights of individuals.
Exactly what does that have to do with the Upanishads, Thucidides' story of creation, your own particular cult, or any other religion?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:46 am
Sigh…it's like arguing with children. Evangelicals are quite content to deny the basic laws of science, while they sit resplendent in it's bounty–the technologies that shape our every day life. I say to the Evangelicals: scientists have always been disproportionately atheists, so burn your car, burn your house, give up your Wal-mart, and go live in the woods somewhere like the animals you are.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:46 am
If Christian Fundamentalist are so concerned with feeding the poor, why are they spending tens of millions of dollars fighting civil rights, when that money could be going to helping God's less fortunate children? All the Mormon and Baptist and Catholic money used to pass Prop H8 was taken from the mouths of the poor.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:46 am
If Christian Fundamentalist are so concerned with feeding the poor, why are they spending tens of millions of dollars fighting civil rights, when that money could be going to helping God's less fortunate children? All the Mormon and Baptist and Catholic money used to pass Prop H8 was taken from the mouths of the poor.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:47 am
In early Biblical times, incest didn't carry the stigma that it does today for a lot of reasons. First, it was the only way to reproduce. There were the first parents: Adam and Eve. They had kids. If their kids wanted to have kids, who were they to reproduce with but each other? This lasted for a while as the earth was beginning to populate. The reason Lot has sex with his daughters [if that even actually happened] was to produce offspring. Second, the gene pool wasn't a clusterfuck back then, so genetic mental and physical handicaps weren't a problem then. Last, PLEASE OH PLEASE correct your typos. They make you sound ridiculous. Using a post with faulty grammar and spelling to bolster your argument is telling all and YOU are bankrupt of logic….I am sorry for YOU.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:49 am
“Expressly stated and implied” does not mean it is real. We like to SAY there is a separation because it looks good on paper. The Constitution is just another ancient piece of literature, just like the Bible. Neither of them have much to do with the reality of the day (what the heck does Amendment #7 MEAN to the average person?) The reality is that there has never been a separation of church and state in this country; that people's belief systems have ALWAYS played a part in our political process. If our political process were as pure as we all like to think it was, we gay Americans would need to fight for rights we already have as citizens of the United States. I'll leave the law classes to those who need to continue to obfuscate reality.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:52 am
Ooops, I meant to type “we gay Americans WOULDN'T need to fight for rights we already have as citizens of the United States.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:53 am
Look around. Obviously, our founding fathers were severely deluded, weren't they?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:58 am
“The gene pool wasn't a clusterfuck back then”? So you're saying we got MORE genetically diverse since then? That we INTRODUCED mutations into our genome?
Your absence of logic is remarkable.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:59 am
'a lot 'are two words. Really. All the time. No exceptions.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 6:59 am
Start the countdown to non-exmpt status for political/religious whackos on January 20. That'll be a hit on COS tax base, but so be it if it rids us of this cancer.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:00 am
fundamentalist christians, as you call them, can be concerned with multiple things at once. some churches give away scholarships to their high school grads…is that taking from the mouths of the poor? some churches don't give any money to politics. some churches focus heavily on their homeless ministry. some churches don't have a homeless ministry because of their location.
a church, at any given point, will have many different fund accounts. especially if it is a large church. just because they give money to support something political [which i don't actually support] doesn't mean they don't also support the homeless and poor.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:05 am
Yes, and NOW homosexuality doesn't carry the stigma that it did in the past for a lot of reasons. First, all it is is LOVE. Second, LOVE is allegedly what God is all about. Perhaps there is a lot of doubtful stuff in there and perhaps people who choose to build their entire belief system on this doubtful stuff are rather doubtful as well….hmmm….
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:10 am
Actually, you are making this up.
The First Amendment reads as follows:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”
The first known occurence of the exact phrase “separation of church and state” is in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, since quoted several times in Supreme Court decisions.
Jefferson also wrote:
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. “
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. “
People like you seem to think that you can make up any lie you want to, as long as it's draped in the respectability of Christianity. Tantamount to urban legend indeed.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:12 am
yes i am saying we became more genetically diverse. Adam and Eve were created perfectly. From then on, things got genetically worse.
the second law of thermodynamics states that things go from order to disorder, not the other way around.
my logic is sound, karen.
but thank you for trying to make me feel ignorant to make yourself feel better.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:26 am
They do have freedom of speech as do we all. The problem is that their tax exemption is a priviledge, the price is that they stay out of our politics and our business. This organization is nothing more than a Republican hate group that violated their exempt status a long time ago. They have spent approx half a million to interfere with people's lives and get a discriminatory law passed. for what? How many true acts of charity could they have performed with that money? The problem is that this organization has never been concerned with acts of charity.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:26 am
So it is alright to practise double standards to justify your arguments? I thought that would be the retort from the Christian Talibans…..such lame logic cut no ice with the present era of people who know better than to be cowed by threats. What about the unforgiving God? To put it bluntly murdered people just because they dared questioned him!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:31 am
I am convinced Beth is one of those who would prefer to be called sheep…and their “Shepard” …Jesus…..what a naivette!!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:38 am
A profound question….I am sure the Christian Talibans has no logical answer to your question….instead they will lean on the bible to prop up their infantile arguments.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:41 am
agreed.
the truth is, focus on the family isn't a church. james dobson isn't a pastor. and i've never really liked his ideas. still don't.
to clarify: i neither support nor like james dobson.
nor am i a sheep [?]
to kiamtan: do not talk to me or about me if you cannot do it in a grammatically correct manner. you sound too unintelligent to even entertain with an argument.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 7:57 am
I guess that is the problem with you nuts. The second law of thermodynamics, or entropy has little to do with genetic diversity. If you believe all people are the descended from Adam and Eve, there could be no possibility of genetic diversity.
Entropy, doesn't state that “things go from order to disorder”. Entropy is a measure of the unavailability of a system’s energy to do work. True that entropy deals with physical processes and whether they occur spontaneously, but this is at the atomic and sub atomic levels. Thermodynamics is all about physics, not genetic diversity! Nice try though. I take that back, it isn't a nice try it is a fundamental misunderstanding of modern physics! That is the problem with the religious nuts out there, one word, misrepresented by christianites, turns into a statement on genetic diversity. I can't even believe how crazy this is!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 8:09 am
ok i'm wrong about the law of thermodynamics…didn't take physics in high school so it's not surprising to me. i apologize for misrepresenting genetic diversity.
but christianites? seriously?
please, in your infinite wisdom, explain genetic diversity to me. i don't want to be misinformed.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 8:16 am
i didn't write this but thought it appropriate to add:
“Since Adam and Eve are Biblical characters we first need to refer to other aspects of Biblical data for a complete answer. Modern science, together with sociology also has some good answers to this very good question.
Firstly, and very simply, modern genetics has clearly demonstrated how all the genetic diversity which we see in terms of differences in skin color and appearance are literally quite minor and are trivial in terms of the overall genome of humans. This is why a white person can sometimes be a better donor for blood and tissues to a black person than another black person and vice versa. So, first of all, it needs to be understood that genetically humans are basically all the same, despite obvious differences between individuals within the same socio-ethnic grouping, and despite superficial differences such as color, eye fat content (a factor in the different Asian eye) etc.
Secondly, if we understand the principles of genetic inheritance, we can also understand how every skin color on earth can develop from two mid-brown individuals. This is known in practice when two people, themselves the progeny of a white and a black person have children, they themselves can have children of either black or white appearance or any shade in between.
Thirdly, the above point leads into sociology, which explains why 'Africans are still Africans'. The reason for this is the way social groupings, aided by relevant language barriers in many cases, tend to stay isolated from persons who are different and are possibly therefore 'taboo' as eligible marriage partners. Thus it is not merely a matter of genetics that accounts for differences. What matters is that certain populations have become isolated and become specialized and restricted to a particular skin color.
Fourthly, relating to both genetics and Biblical history, two mid brown individuals, with no population isolation, and so continuous interbreeding between people of slightly different coloration, would tend to retain the potential genetic diversity for such characteristics. After the flood from the eight individuals on the ark came all the current individuals on the earth. The differences are quite simply explained by genetic isolation brought about by the Babel dispersion where the major barrier of language led to much smaller people groups being isolated and so each with a less complete available genetic pool.
Further to the above, environmental factors led to selection of various colors in different areas. One example of this is the known protective effect of melanin, which produces darker skin color, against UV radiation, which would tend to produce cancers and premature aging in persons of lighter skin color in hot and sunny climates. Similarly, in low sun environments such as Norway, people of darker skin color would have trouble producing enough vitamin D through their skin and so tend to suffer from the degenerative bone disorder rickets. Some have even suggested that this led to the demise of the Neanderthal people, since they evidently had this disorder, as evidenced in their bones.”
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 8:29 am
And truly it is written in the Gospels of Potter that the Dementors shall torment the wicked. What makes your fable any more valid than mine?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 9:14 am
Oh, that's rich…
Let's see, who sounds less intelligent: someone who writes in a less than grammatically-perfect manner, or someone who presumes to lecture people on physics and population biology when she clearly has no grasp of the basic principles of either discipline? Hmmm….
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 9:18 am
Beth, how would you know the gene pool wasn't a CF? Hopefully you're answer isn't the bible? I'm guessing there were a lot of phyiscial and mental handicaps back then. So if Adam and Eve's brothers and sisters hooked up that was OK? If their brother and brothers or sisters and sisters hooked up that was an abomination?
It sounds like you're saying incest was OK then because it justified a means?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 9:19 am
I thought the reason Lot had sex with his daughters is they got him drunk first.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 10:45 am
Ahhh… and the most powerful wizard of his age and mentor to Potter, Our Savior, was gay.
Dumbledore's Army forever. Only now fighting for Marriage Equality.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 11:35 am
LOL! Trying to apply the principles of modern biological science to ancient mythology is like trying to sink a deck screw with a set of box wrenches! In other words, you're using entirely the wrong tools for the job, honey.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 11:45 am
“Sigh” its like explaining a sunrise to a man born blind from birth. OK Kiamtan and R.Norvegicus and all others, I'll explain why you are having this silly argument, but I don't expect you to belive a word of it … here it goes: I am a “Man of Science” and of God. They do agree, if you have a significant understanding and some basic beliving in a creator. TRUTH: Spiritual knowlege is percieved spiritually … in other words, if you're an reprobate minded unbeliever, you DO NOT HAVE the God (or satanic) given ability to discern good and evil. Sorry. All you have to go by is your five senses. You are trying to “see” something you can't, and are angry and lash out at these “crazy people” like Beth who paint a picture you can't possibly see. The Bible claims that, to you, spirtual knowledge is “Foolishness” … are you convinced yet? I didn't think so. You see, without holy spirt, you are just “body and Soul” … So, in other words R.NORVEGICUS, as it turns out YOU are the animal.
BETH: Don't worry, the Bible also says that, on Judgement Day, people like Kiamtan and R.Norvegicus, (if they don't change), will be CRAWLING on their hands and knees begging … and you know what we will do then? These folks will have had their chance, have choosen evil and we will laugh at them, because we're vicious and mean? NO, because they have been defeated, and we will then throw them into the lake of fire where they will never harm anyone ever again. Hey, it helps me keep things in perspective in life, you should feel sorry for these individuals who may never see light …
Others: Laugh and Scoff and judge now, but your time will come, and YOU will be very, very surprised that all of us CHRISTians were right!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
LOL! If you really were a “man of science,” you'd be relying much more on rational and well-reasoned argument to sway skeptical minds, and much less on nonsensical emotional rhetoric.
But then again, when people start to exercise their capacity for reason and rationality, they tend to worry less about “lakes of fire” in some mythical anthropocentric afterlife for which no evidence exists, and focus more on making life better in practical ways for themselves and their fellow humans here on planet earth.
Plus, they tend to realize that random use of the all-caps key does nothing to improve their credibility.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
I hear the next judgment day is 12/21/12. Do you know if this is true?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
The next one? Uh oh, does that mean I missed the first one? Darn it, that'll teach me to keep better track of my Day-Planner!
So is it formal wear or business casual? Will there be a cash bar?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 12:35 pm
Oh hey, maybe I should bring my swimsuit, in case we get to swim in the Lake of FIre afterward!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
OMG listen to yourself! Oh yes, me and other non Christians will burn in hell because we don't believe what you and your bible says, a book that was written by other mere humans. *note sarcasm*
If that's how it is anyway- good people being condemned to a horrible hell because they question or don't believe then i don't want to be a part of it. i will not be a part of that. and what does that say about those who are? now THAT's evil. and laughable.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
“Sway Skeptical Minds”? Accipeter, whatever gives you the notion that I would waste my time trying to do that? No, I was writing to Christians and for the defense of God.
“nonsensical emotional rhetoric”? unfortunately for you, you will probably never know how wrong you are … OH, and the Lake of Fire is not an afterlife, per-say … you won't “go there” According to the Word of God, unbelievers will be destroyed by it, ceasing to exist … there Is NO hell … hell is a mythical, religious superstition, if you believe what the Bible says. I do.
Accipeter, I am laughing, hear me laughing? Get used to it, you'll be hearing it again some day!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
There is no Hell, the Bible was writen by God through men, and all of life is a choice. You will either choose to serve good, or choose to serve evil. Not choosing is a choice too, and your God given right of free will, which will never be taken from you. You will not be condemned for questioning! Once you've choosen, that is another story …
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
That's how such things happen. People with brainpower so limited they can only entertain one thought, line up behind whomever is waving their banner.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
And how is that a hit on the tax base? Churches own a lot of property that is not taxed, many of their employees at the top of the salary scale are not taxed. The Mormon Church does not pay most of its pastors and church workers, and they collect tons of money. Tax it. Let religious institutions deduct direct costs of food for the poor and shelter for the homeless. Tax the bookstores, tax the wineries, restaurants and commercial properties.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
You may be surprised on Judgment Day that your claims to christianity are hollow because you were lukewarm and misled. Judge yourselves, that is Christ's commandment. You choose to target people with sins you don't share. Cast out the gossips, gluttons, sloths, disobedient children, adulterers, idolaters, and money changers — yes, that includes the gift shop in the lobby of your church. Once you've cleaned house, go into the world and let your light shine, not your shadow of aggression and disapproval.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
When Jesus comes back, it will be in power, to judge the world.
Seriously. It's in Revelation. You ought to try reading it sometime.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
LOL! Oh, so sorry, my mistake — I should've realized you're just preaching to your little choir! Please, by all means, carry on, Dr. Science!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
“According to the Word of God, unbelievers will be destroyed by it, ceasing to exist … there Is NO hell … hell is a mythical, religious superstition, if you believe what the Bible says. I do.”
Btw, I looked up “irony” in the dictionary, and this post was there! LOL!
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
I think there's been a bunch of them but according to people like Pat Robertson they're averted by “people of God praying”.
Here's a list of some of PR's strike outs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 3:27 pm
Hey… anyone see the Jonestown specials on CNN and MSNBC this weekend?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
Isn't pride a deadly sin?
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
“……will be CRAWLING on their hands and knees begging … and you know what we will do then? These folks will have had their chance, have choosen evil and we will laugh at them…..”
What if your child ever acted that way on the playground. You moralists always deem you are right. I've read enough of your patched together fairy tales to know that we non-believers get a very clear 7 year warning bell. So if I start seeing flying horses and seas of flames then y'know what, I'll say you guys were right all along!
Here's some stupid logic you may like—-After Prop 8 passed, California has been ENGULFED IN FLAMES!!! Seems the huge spaghetti monster is pissed off about that!
We heard this same crap from Pastor Hagie 'bout Hurricane Katrina being sent from god, since New Orleans loves the gays. Get a life people and thanks for reading my rant.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
I am thoroughly surprised by a Person of Science leaning on a Book that has as many versions as you have fingers and toes and on a religion that is only 2,000 odd years old. Going around issuing veiled threats of the “punishment to befall” the non-believers is so infantile.
There are many other religions much much older than Christianity and in general they do not go around proselytising their religion nor issue veiled threats of eternal condemnation.to so called “Non Believers”…..what a bunch of croc!
Having said that I want you to know I do respect your RIGHT to put forth your points nothwithstanding the fact I find them so infantile and you may continue to issue veiled threats of eternal condemnation in the name of your staunch believe in your Holy Book….however do please note We reserve OUR RIGHTS to free speech and Freedom of Choice of RELIGION.
Comment posted November 18, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
Hey Tennyson Kpohraror, if this so called “Sodom and Gomorrah” actually did exist and was consumed by “Fire and Brimstone” then why is humankind still in existance today? Surely, there is much more evil and such now more than ever, yet, we haven't been banished because of it! You Christian kooks make me laugh! It makes my point even more correct, the bigger and louder you bible bashers are, the bigger the hypocryte you prove yourselves to be. As some of the other bloggers have mentioned, you people are nothing more than terrorists. Trying to save the world from itself. For thousands of years, millions of people have been murdered, in the name of religion. And it still continues today. Your FOTF is supporting discrimination because a group of people chose to make a commitment of love and simply wants the same rights as you and I enjoy. How is that a sin??? And please, don't get on your “bible psycobable (I mean “bible”) and start quoting from a book that was written supposedly by someone who was there in every moment from the beginning of Adam and Eve to the present. How is that possible?? Excuse me, but if I'm not mistaken, wasn't prehistoric man here before Adam and Eve?? And who did Cain and Able marry??? Was there other families in that garden too??? Hmmmm, too many questions, but no answers that make logical sense. Listen to George Carlin's version of religion, it will open your eyes on the common sense that it makes. But of course, it is what it is. You're right for you and I'm right for me. Peace
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 12:56 am
Do what “work”? Forward their own agenda? Force their own will on the people?
Spend millions of dollars to promote bigotry instead of feeding and housing those less fortunate than themselves?
The churches are getting too big for their boots. Time to cut their tax except status, and cut gov't funding to religious based school. You want your kid to have a religious education? You pony up the money yourself.
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 12:58 am
Spending MILLIONS on a political agenda is a waste of money. If I belonged to that church I would be cutting off my donation immediately.
If the church leaders want to play with politics, they should run for office. Preaching their hate behind the safety of their pulpit just shows them up to be the cowards that they are.
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 8:12 am
I feel that someone who is a Christian should speak out about all of this. Christians do not, or at least should not, get their views from personal opinion. It should always come from the scriptures. It is those scriptures that speak out against homosexuality, not the opinions of man. Often times we as people do and say what is right in our own eyes. God gives us His word as a guide in life and to be successful in our walk (this is explained in Joshua 1: 8 (8This Book of the Law shall not depart out of your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, that you may observe and do according to all that is written in it. For then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall deal wisely and have good [a]success). It is also the bible thta tells us that speaks out against acts of homosexuality. Any stance against such things should not be one of hate for a person but for the act itself. As for the person who says the church should address real problems, I agree that there is certainly a need for that. But ultimately, the church is not just an organization designed to feed the body. It is also designed to feed the soul. God loves us all but as Jesus taught, to love God is to obey His word. The choice is ours.
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 9:02 am
i so agree with you. The church cosists of group of members who give them money and they decide where to spend it and usually done for the biblical causes. I am sure there are other religious organizations in US which are not 'christians' and spend their money for their own agenda and enjoy the tax exemp status as well.
These gay people think that we should all think like them but that is not necessarily true. I think their whole rights is so phony so untrue and so very DISGUSTING
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 11:08 am
Some people think liver is disgusting and some think it is delicious. Personal preferences should have no role in deciding upon civic freedoms. The rights of gay people should be no different from your rights. Same-sex marriage has no effect on anyone else's marriage nor does it interfere with anyone else in any fashion. Marriage is a “contract” only between two people and the State (and optionally with a Church).
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
I am afraid that I would have to disagree with you this point. The bible teaches us for husbands to love your wives as Christ loves the church (that being He laid down His life for it). A contract would simply be something that, through legal process, can be broken. God sees it as a covenant (something that is not breakable) between you, your wife/husband and God. The marriage is a representation between us and God, referring to His love for us. The bible also teaches us that woman- Eve- was made as a helper to man and came from Man's rib. Thus the term woman (out from the womb). Even the very term woman is a biblical referrence (Genesis 2:22-24).
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
I hope your kidding Dee Galloway. If your not maybe you should read this!
It's about time people stopped acting the way you speak and take Separation of Church and State as it was it was ment to be taken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_chur...
Comment posted November 19, 2008 @ 6:36 pm
focus on the family isn't a church, it's a non-profit organization (the article was wrong on that note). and they're not preaching hate – they are putting money, effort, and time into something they value, which is marriage between men and women. this doesn't show them to be cowardly but bold, because they're able to appropriately decide how to use their expenses.
those donating to focus on the family are typically christians who would claim the same values for their lives – it's not as if focus on the family were doing this behind their backs without telling them.
Comment posted November 30, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
Aw to Hell with all this let's play nice crap. Let's just have another Civil War and get it over with.
Comment posted January 27, 2009 @ 1:03 am
I call that: “PRAY POLITICS – PAY TAXES.”
Comment posted January 27, 2009 @ 3:19 am
I'm old enough to remember when someone said: “That's mighty Christian of you…” people took it as a compliment. It meant – either honestly or jokingly – that you had done something kind or at least polite. Now, ti would be taken as an insult, because ignorant bigots have turned Christianity into an ugly cult, where lies are taught in the name of kindness and ignorance has replaced understanding. Arrogance is the fundamentalist's only virtue.
We live in a universe that is billions of years old, That gives us a choice. Either we can stretch our minds and our imagination to attempt to understand the awesome majesty and power or the God of that infinite universe OR we can shrink god down to fit inside our cowardly little minds. We can use that dwarfed little god as our pet puppy do to pretend the he comes when we whistle. I guess you have made your choice; I made mine. How dare you presume that blind- faith in preposterous, ignorant nonsense gives you the right to judge other peoples lives.
Comment posted January 27, 2009 @ 3:52 am
Great Jefferson quotes, Dave. do you have sources or citations ?
Here's one for you…
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
<<< Thomas Jefferson
Thanks… These Fundamentalists really believe the lies they are taught about this being a “Christian nation” where Christians have the right to dominance and we're all here by your leave. They have no=w understanding of what it means to live in a pluralistic society. They have no concept of other people's liberty that does not include taking orders form them. They have dire Biblical warnings for anyone who does not submit to their ignorance superstition cowardice and fear. It's taken a long time but they – with help from Shrub Bush – have finally destroyed the obscene power of the Republican Party to whip up the ignorant with MO-rality while they robbed the blind. They really do not understand how much like the Taliban their primitive thought processes are, The see the head wrappings and think they are different. They're not very much different. They despise other people's freedom equally and equally ignorantly. They are far more threatening to the future of America than al Queda. No outside force will defeat America. As Sinclair Lewis wrote long ago: “When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” Their guy, George Bush compromised our democracy and pushed us closer to the edge of loosing everything that has made America exceptional that we have come in 200 years. They will not believe that until George Bush goes to prison. That is why I advocate prosecution for the crimes of the last 8 years. It must be made plain what matters in America. We'll see…Joey
Comment posted January 27, 2009 @ 4:08 am
junebuggy: “Why should only churches run these services?”
There are very good reasons why we should welcome the contribution of religious communities to provide charity services. Despite my near universal contempt for their popes, ayatollahs and mind-diddlers like James Dobson, there is a vast sea of decency in many communities of faith. these people want to serve those in need and many of them are very good at delivering services. I have run a nonprofit for 20 years and have come to respect and admire the kindness and decency of many of the people who use the structure of churches as a platform to do wonderful humanitarian things & frankly, very often government bureaucrats are not well intentioned or very good at their jobs. Putting all of our services in the hands of government is a bad idea. I run an NGO which I believe plays a roll in service delivery that is more efficient & user friendly than government and less restricted by ideology than church run charities. There are so many men, women and children in need that everyone's contribution can be of use..
Comment posted February 9, 2009 @ 9:06 pm
This is incredibly well said, Joey, thanks. You've said exactly what I want to say several times a week, and eloquently to boot.
Comment posted February 10, 2009 @ 11:03 am
Thanks, Abby, for the kind words.
I have been writing about this threat ever since I watched Jesse Helms' circus turn the North Carolina primary for Ronald Reagan. I saw the power and the danger inherent in what I have called the 'unholy alliance” between right-wing politics and primitive Christianity.
Although momentarily discredited by the massive incompetence of the Bush presidency, as long as Fundamentalist Christians are led by predators like James Dobson and Pat Robertson, they remain a threat to the health and liberty of all Americans.
To confirm that threat, all ll one need do is to re-read the ugly, cowardly, dishonest and hysterical rant of James Dobson's, when he, impotently, railed against the coming election of President Obama. For all of their pretensions to divine inspiration, these predators have no integrity and no respect for human decency.
Comment posted February 19, 2009 @ 8:16 pm
I do not feel one bit of sadness for those getting laid off from FOTF. They chose to work with the devil and now they have to pay for it. It does sadden me, that all of that money wasted could have done so much good by going to charities worthy enough to accept monies from such a hate filled organization.
Pingback posted February 23, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
[...] of state, including a $100,000 check in late October, just days before the group announced it planned to lay off nearly 20 percent of its employees. On Nov. 17 Focus on the Family announced they planned to cut 202 staff jobs, and reduce the number [...]
Pingback posted February 27, 2009 @ 11:54 am
[...] On the Family today announced the elimination of 202 jobs at its Colorado Springs headquarters — 149 through layoffs and another 53 through attrition. [...]
Comment posted March 11, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
I always did not like communication between a policy, church, money, I consider it very much not correctly
Pingback posted March 27, 2009 @ 6:55 pm
[...] Cara Degette put an intriguing blog post on More layoffs at Focus on the FamilyHere’s a quick excerpt“It is certainly heartbreaking that in this case fulfilling that duty means having to say goodbye to some members of our Focus family, but industry realities really leave us no alternative,” he note in his statement. … [...]
Pingback posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:33 pm
[...] that Dobson’s Focus on the Family, which spent more than $500,000 promoting Proposition 8, has now had to lay off 20 percent of its work force in Colorado [...]
Pingback posted April 19, 2009 @ 5:31 am
[...] More startling still was the abrupt about-face of the Rev. Rick Warren, the hugely popular megachurch leader whose endorsement last year of Proposition 8, California’s same-sex marriage ban, had roiled his appearance at the Obama inaugural. Warren also dropped in on Larry King to declare that he had “never” been and “never will be” an “anti-gay-marriage activist.” This was an unmistakable slap at the National Organization for Marriage, which lavished far more money on Proposition 8 than even James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. [...]
Pingback posted April 20, 2009 @ 10:17 pm
[...] More startling still was the abrupt about-face of the Rev. Rick Warren, the hugely popular megachurch leader whose endorsement last year of Proposition 8, California’s same-sex marriage ban, had roiled his appearance at the Obama inaugural. Warren also dropped in on Larry King to declare that he had “never” been and “never will be” an “anti-gay-marriage activist.” This was an unmistakable slap at the National Organization for Marriage, which lavished far more money on Proposition 8 than even James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. [...]
Pingback posted May 12, 2009 @ 3:21 pm
[...] More startling still was the abrupt about-face of the Rev. Rick Warren, the hugely popular megachurch leader whoseendorsement last year of Proposition 8, California’s same-sex marriage ban, had roiled his appearance at the Obama inaugural. Warren also dropped in on Larry King to declare that he had “never” been and “never will be” an “anti-gay-marriage activist.” This was an unmistakable slap at the National Organization for Marriage, which lavished far more money on Proposition 8 than even James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. [...]
Pingback posted May 31, 2009 @ 9:29 am
[...] [...]
Comment posted July 15, 2009 @ 9:27 pm
Pretty cool set of resources…thanks
http://www.mpos.net/s/p4.asp
http://fashionshow99.spaces.live.com
Comment posted December 18, 2009 @ 12:46 am
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